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Time for an u120kg weight class?

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martinbIcon...09-05-2012 @ 15:14 
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Robbo said:Is the calling for a 120kg cat for guys who are in no mans land when it comes to opens?

A national level 120kg cat will be just as heavy as any open qualifiers imo. The 105 quals and national finals are generally heavy as f**k and not far behind so a 120kg cat would be hardly any different.

If the 120kg guys are thinking they can be competitive in a 120kg class I think they might be mistaken if they already arnt stong enough to step up to opens qualifiers.


what the hell would be the point if it was just as heavy?
davycummingsIcon...09-05-2012 @ 15:15 
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Its an interesting debate.

I think you cant complain about it diluting the sport on the back of adding u90 and now u80 classes, neither of which have imo diluted the sport at all.

With u80, u90 and u105 you have 3 catagories withing a 25kg BW range. Then over 105.

I appreciate the guys at 106 would just do 105, but there are a lot of guys here in the 120-130 range that feel they would be much weaker of they dieted down to 105, but dont feel their frame could hold much more weight and still be able to do all the day to day things they would like to do. I am one of those.

I am about 118kg just now, and not especially strong. I owuld be a worse strongman at 140kg, as I wouldn't be able to move, let alone as a 160kg+ who in the main win the higher level open comps.

The top opens can be towards a foot taller than me and in some cases over 80kg heavier. Strong at 120kg or not, that is a much bigger mismatch than would exist even if only u105 existed imo.

I love strongman, I love competing and am slowly improving. I will never be good enough to mix it with the really big boys, and would enjoy the oportunity to do a few comps with guys at u120. I thing the standard would actually be very high, and give guys another thing to aim for. Would it stop me doing opens as well, nope. I would do both, and this is why it woudn't dilute the sport as it does in PL imo

I am all for giving it a go. I cant see why it would be any worse as an addition than u80 or u90, or indeed even u105. All of which actially benefitted the sport. Again this is only my subjective opinion
RyanHIcon...09-05-2012 @ 15:15 
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There are exceptions, bish and hixxy are two that spring to mind :P and like i said wasnt the u80kg comp basically a u90kg comp except they where 10kg lighter?
Ben_SomethingIcon...09-05-2012 @ 15:20 
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The danger of introducing new weight categories is the impact it will have on the exsisting ones.

Lets take this years souther qualifiers: the u105's had 14 (?) compete and the two open qualifiers had 4 and 8 respectively. It would be fair to assume that a u120 class would take competitors from one or both of the above categories.

Understandably people would choose the level they will be most competitive at, imo strongman doesnt have the numbers to start introducing additional categories at a weight were existing ones are already struggling for numbers.

You can be a very competitive open at 120-125KG (even less imo) you probably won't qualify for WSM, but if you can't complete a regional qualifier at 120KG its because you arent strong enough, not because you arent heavy enough.

There are plently of open/charity/regional comps for 120 guys to do if the national qualifiers are a little heavy.

**Personally I would love a 120KG class, but not until there is enough interest to support it**
JCIcon...09-05-2012 @ 15:21 
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Ben_Something said:The danger of introducing new weight categories is the impact it will have on the exsisting ones.

Lets take this years souther qualifiers: the u105's had 14 (?) compete and the two open qualifiers had 4 and 8 respectively. It would be fair to assume that a u120 class would take competitors from one or both of the above categories.

Understandably people would choose the level they will be most competitive at, imo strongman doesnt have the numbers to start introducing additional categories at a weight were existing ones are already struggling for numbers.

You can be a very competitive open at 120-125KG (even less imo) you probably won't qualify for WSM, but if you can't complete a regional qualifier at 120KG its because you arent strong enough, not because you arent heavy enough.

There are plently of open/charity/regional comps for 120 guys to do if the national qualifiers are a little heavy.

**Personally I would love a 120KG class, but not until there is enough interest to support it**


Good post
RobboIcon...09-05-2012 @ 15:22 
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martinb said:
what the hell would be the point if it was just as heavy?


So what weights would be used in a 120kg cat?

The 105s weights are very heavy, not much difference between them and an opens qual.

What im saying is i cant see how the 120s would be different and where it would fit in. Especially as the weights that would need to be used for say a national level comp would need to be more than the 105s which already aint far behind opens quals weights. Most decent 105s can already manage with the opens qual weights.

If your an open and cant do the opens quals there are intermediate comps.
JCIcon...09-05-2012 @ 15:23 
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Robbo said:
So what weights would be used in a 120kg cat?
The 105s weights are very heavy, not much difference between them and an opens qual.
What im saying is i cant see how the 120s would be different and where it would fit in. Especially as the weights that would need to be used for say a national level comp would need to be more than the 105s which already aint far behind opens quals weights. Most decent 105s can already manage with the opens qual weights.
If your an open and cant do the opens quals there are intermediate comps.


to back up Robbos point> BSM u105 2012:

Squat - Prob about 250KG x reps

Log - 120-150 medley

Farmers Medley: 140KG into Drag

Were is there for 120s to go from the weights above, without being "open" weights?
davycummingsIcon...09-05-2012 @ 15:24 
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Ben_Something said:The danger of introducing new weight categories is the impact it will have on the exsisting ones.


So?

If the athlete is competing at a weight more natural to them then why would that be a problem.

Not supporting one catagory because it might appeal to athletes more than another 2 that exist seems a very strange reason not to have it imo.

For any top 105s that move up there will be someone new coming up to replace them, and they may be stronger for not having to make weight. I dont think the 120s would take away from open either, as you are not limited to one or another
JCIcon...09-05-2012 @ 15:27 
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davycummings said:
I dont think the 120s would take away from open either, as you are not limited to one or another


How many 105 guys are strong enough to do opens, but dont as they prioritise the 105 comps...plenty...and the same would happen with 120s/opens

Its a bit different in Scotland, as you only have about 5 comps a year, so everyone does everyhting Grin
davycummingsIcon...09-05-2012 @ 15:27 
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Robbo said:
Most decent 105s can already manage with the opens qual weights.
If your an open and cant do the opens quals there are intermediate comps.


So what is your argument here then. You have 105s but the guys are strong enough to do open, why not just scrap 105s too then?

Why is it ok to have a 105kg cut off even though the guys are strong enough, but not a 120kg cut off?
davycummingsIcon...09-05-2012 @ 15:30 
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JC said:
How many 105 guys are strong enough to do opens, but dont as they prioritise the 105 comps...plenty...and the same would happen with 120s/opens
Its a bit different in Scotland, as you only have about 5 comps a year, so everyone does everyhting Grin


Ok, so even if they did, whats the problem? They are not likely be the top opens anyway. if someone was capable of winning open they would be doing it for sure.

it is prob different in Scotland, we do have less comps, and also a lot less guys over 120, so its probably even less relevent as a catagory here.

I am however in favour of it (not that I haven't given that away already)
Ben_FIcon...09-05-2012 @ 15:31 
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Lots of people viewing the thread which suggest an interest one way or the other - speak up people even its a yes/no post - you don't have to justify your reasons or get embroiled in a debate, it would just be good to have a general consensus one way or the other. Thanks.
davycummingsIcon...09-05-2012 @ 15:34 
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Post Edited: 09.05.2012 @ 15:34 PM by davycummings
Ben_F said:Lots of people viewing the thread which suggest an interest one way or the other - speak up people even its a yes/no post - you don't have to justify your reasons or get embroiled in a debate, it would just be good to have a general consensus one way or the other. Thanks.


It may be that they have noticed a thread hit 6 pages since lunchtime and come in looking for some kind of s**tstorm Happy
RobboIcon...09-05-2012 @ 15:35 
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davycummings said:
So what is your argument here then. You have 105s but the guys are strong enough to do open, why not just scrap 105s too then?
Why is it ok to have a 105kg cut off even though the guys are strong enough, but not a 120kg cut off?


What im saying is, if people want a category to be competitive in then I would think carefully about what will be the outcome when it comes to weight selection in a 120kg category.

105s weight are already right up the arse of the open weights and I cant see any middle ground when it comes to weight selection in a 120kg class.

If your 120kg and can comfortably do the 105s weights then you should be able to do the opens qualifier weights.

If the 105s is scrapped then i wouldnt see it as a big deal either but thats another thread altogether. The weights are getting so heavy it makes no ends really. The 105s IS there so i compete in it as I am competitve in it and enjoy it, as to whether it should be is another story.
Ben_SomethingIcon...09-05-2012 @ 15:36 
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Post Edited: 09.05.2012 @ 15:37 PM by Ben_Something
davycummings said:
So?
If the athlete is competing at a weight more natural to them then why would that be a problem.
Not supporting one catagory because it might appeal to athletes more than another 2 that exist seems a very strange reason not to have it imo.
For any top 105s that move up there will be someone new coming up to replace them, and they may be stronger for not having to make weight. I dont think the 120s would take away from open either, as you are not limited to one or another


So on that basis why not have a u105 u110 u115 u120 u125? That way everyone can compete at the weight they deem most natural.
The amount of weight categories has to be proportional to the number of people competiting, what is the point in having a weight category with 3 entries?

u120 would take away from opens, just because people could do both, doesnt mean to say they will. I "could" compete at opens, but I choose not to because the 105 comps are enough for me, if i did opens as well i would be competiting every other weekend over the summer.

If u105 are strong enough to compete at open level I fail to see why someone weighing 120 isnt. I get the impression people want a intermediate class, not a 120 class.

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